E30 - Daily Creative Power with Mary Jo Hoffman
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[00:00:00] Hello, my creative friends, welcome to another episode of BDI Create Today. Today we have an extra special treat. We have Mary Jo Hoffman here to talk to us about how she is bringing creativity into her life and her work. Every day. Mary Jo, I am not going to waste any time right now talking more about you because I want you to tell us about who you are, where you are, and what you do with your creativity.
Hi, Beth. It's It's really fun to be here. I, one of the fun things is I'm finally talking to someone in the central time zone. I know. Is that nice? I know. I know you're in Chicago. I'm in Minneapolis. It doesn't happen very often that I get invited to talk to someone in there in the central time zone.
So that's great. Fellow Midwesterner. [00:01:00] Yeah. Yeah. Hi, I'm Mary Jo Hoffman. I am an. Artist, photographer, and now I can say author that's, I'm still getting used to that. I just had a book come out in May called Still the Art of Noticing from Fiden, and it's doing really well. And so it's based on a 10 year project called Still where it's 12 and a half years to be exact.
I started May, January 1st, 2012. And I did, I gave myself a one year challenge to photograph found nature on a simple white background. I do it on my kitchen floor and it came out of walking the dog every day. And I started it. 12 and a half years ago, and it was meant to be a one year project and I haven't stopped.
So now 4, 000, almost 600 images later, I'm still documenting at my, my place daily with the found nature on a white background. Yeah. I feel like I've become a, like [00:02:00] a dailiness evangelist. Oh my gosh, Doing a daily challenge. Now, there are lots of challenges out there in the creative world. Anyone can go on Instagram at any time and seven people have a new challenge for you to do. but, I love what you did. You told, you found something that you were just intrigued about yourself.
Was this a challenge that anyone was just offering up or you just thought to yourself, I'm going to take a picture every day? Yeah. So it was It was 2012 when I started, but I discovered blogs in like 2010. I'd been working full time. I forgot to mention that as an aerospace engineer for 17 years prior to that.
So I was a full time corporate person by, The last few years of my career, I was just traveling all the time. And wasn't on social media, didn't know, even know what a blog was, had no idea. So when I left corporate work, after a few months, few [00:03:00] years I discovered this online community of creatives.
I'd always had a creative ambitions and had been a maker as a kid and I'd picked up photography as a hobby in college. So I discovered this online creative community and it was, the community was so supportive and people were having clearly having fun. Making work, sharing work.
And I thought, oh, I want to be part of this community. And I thought, you gotta contribute to be part of the community. So I thought I'll do one of these projects. the one that inspired me was Lisa Congdon's collection a day. Remember that? it came out before it was early.
She's always early on everything. And I saw that, and I'm not a collector. I'm a minimalist. But there was something about her Simple presentation of these collections and the simple photography, a flat lay photography she did. [00:04:00] And it was visually compelling for me. It was attractive. and simple, she would just put them on a white background on the floor and photograph them. And so I thought I'll do something similar. What, in what can I do? And took stock of my life. And I had a. at the time that needed a daily walk and our family's a nature family. I live in. Three acres, wooded acres on a lake in Minnesota.
I was one of those people that when I walked the dog, I'd pick up the, I'd pick up the blue Jay feather if I saw it, and so I was always coming home with treasures. And so I thought I'll do nature. I'll do found nature on a white background. And it was going to be, my original idea was going to be a collection today, but that's hard to do.
You can't find 15 blue Jay feathers. On a single walk. Eventually it just became found nature on a white background
And I did announce it and I did start the blog called still, and I did get some followers. So I'd felt accountable to them every day. To, put up a new image. And so I, [00:05:00] yeah, I've had people that have been with me 12 years. So yeah. And your words still, it's a great word because not only does it mean you're taking still life photography, but you're still.
I know it's, it was, I know it was such a good word. And I have a journal page. I like to do visual journaling and I have a two page spread of all the other names I considered when I was thinking of creating the blog. And I'm so glad, 12 years later in a book, I'm so glad I picked still and not some of the other goofy names I considered.
It is so fun to be able to look back on something that you were considering or working on and see the idea that you picked in retrospect and see that, Oh my gosh, if I would have picked any of those other words right now. It would have paled in comparison, so yeah, I almost wonder what would have come of the project.
You know what I mean? [00:06:00] Like it would have been a different project. I think people would have responded to it differently. Still, in the end, I have a very stylized aesthetic, right? It's on a white background. It's modern. And I pick up things that have a sort of a graphic quality to them.
And, but in my mind I was reacting at the time against all the noise the visual noise on the internet and social media and media in general. And so I still had little kids and I just needed calm. I needed quiet. And so still was going to be this quiet corner of the internet. And I really meant it.
Like I really thought I would get six followers and you know that the six of us will just hang out in this little quiet corner of the internet yes, I was using the internet, but it was almost the antithesis of the internet, right?
It's a quiet place to look at nature one item at a time, one thing, one image at a time. Yeah, if it, if I had picked anything, a different [00:07:00] name, it could have evolved very differently. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm, I love words. I love looking up the meanings of words and just seeing the depth and the facets that a single word can have.
So choosing a word like still, that's so fun. Yep. Yep. That is so fun. when I looked through your Instagram and I was on your website, one of the things I love about your work is that you're not always just picking up things that are perfect either.
You bring home things that show the vulnerability of nature. And I see a lot of relationship. Inside the things you've chosen. The subliminal subtext of how nature takes care of itself
and just seeing that cycle of life through what you've picked. Yeah. Your words are so loud in the [00:08:00] pictures that you take. you can spend so much time just looking at what your pictures are saying through nature.
Am I making sense? Yeah. No, a hundred percent. I now give workshops and I deliberately teach that, I didn't know that when I started, I photographed the peony and peak expression, right?
I photographed the iris when it was in full bloom those first years, but then afterwards I didn't want to repeat myself, but I also very quickly came back. To learn that. while beautiful, it's the first of all, they're photographed to death. It's hard to do anything original. But also they weren't the most expressive, it's so much more expressive just before or just after, just before the bloom, just after the bloom and I was photographing every day. So I had to photograph and fall in right. So I was photographing a lot of stems. Summer stems that had died back and by [00:09:00] late fall are still standing. The snow hasn't bent them over, but they're dead now.
And those became some of my favorite photos. And so I started, very quickly learning, Oh, It's more interesting than just before the just after the dying back. They're more emotional, they're more expressive. And so now that's actually what I look for. I actually, ironically now high summer, which we're in is The hardest time for me.
I go outside and it's a wall of green. And where do I even start? even after all these years, it's visual overwhelm. I can find subjects to photograph in winter easier than I can find them in summer. Interesting. Yes. Yeah.
I have so many things I want to ask you. First of all, Consistency. And then after that, I want to talk about leading into consistency is staying consistent. Right? Cause there's, I think those are two different things.
One is [00:10:00] that you have become amazing at what you're doing. And one of the ways to do that is to stay consistent with it. And having that focus that allows you not to do the same thing every day, because you're not taking a picture of the same thing every day, but you are taking pictures every day.
And because you've done that, you've seen yourself start to refocus. How you see didn't write a hundred, no, a hundred percent. The problem I just put together a three part lecture series for the 92nd street. Why? So I have three hours of this in me and so I feel so strongly about it and so passionately.
So yes, let's talk about dailiness. And then and how to be consistent is actually part of that. these one a day challenges, these 30 day, a hundred day, one year challenges,keep staying in the creative community [00:11:00] as as popular because there's, they work, they simply work, they're so effective and There's reasons why they work and they work on all sorts of levels. They work because that daily deadline overrides the perfectionist, right? They work because you get better at what you practice. So if you're doing something every day, you will get better. It's as simple as that.
And if the thing you lack is confidence Doing it every day will build that confidence, right? If What's getting in your way is perfectionism. The daily deadline will override the perfectionism. In my case, the daily need to find a subject, that the treasure hunt of finding a daily subject, it snapped me out of autopilot.
I live in the community I grew up in. And so I'm driving the roads I've driven for 50 some years. It's crazy. But suddenly when I started this [00:12:00] project, Those routes were completely new to me, completely new to me. So that project, snapped me out of autopilot.
So I think this dailiness, this having this daily commitment. is a superpower. It's so small, it's so simple, and yet it changes your world almost immediately once you start one of these.
Okay. Let me talk about not breaking the chain because I'm going to use that expression a lot. So there's a famous story by Jerry Seinfeld, a young comedian at a show came up to him and said, what's your advice for somebody just getting started?
And Jerry Seinfeld is on record as having said here's what you do. You get yourself a big wall calendar, and you put it on the wall and every day you write down one joke. And when you write down that one joke, you put an X on the wall and you never break the chain. And so I'm going to use that expression, don't break the chain, because that's essentially what I've done.
And I like that [00:13:00] story because he doesn't say you have to write down an original joke or a killer joke, you just have to commit to not breaking the chain by writing down one joke a day. what I committed to not even knowing, I didn't know that Jerry Seinfeld story until after I was doing this project, but what I committed to and what I did into it right away is that I didn't want to break the chain.
And I'm not particularly superstitious, but I feel like I got a little superstitious, right? I'm not going to break that chain. what I did learn. Is thatwhen I started, I had a little, folder on my desktop called just in case. And so if the day got away from me, I had an image I could post.
And what I found right away is that wasn't helpful. It was easier to just do the thing every day than to stop and start. think of it like a running practice. It's much harder to stop and start than to just go do a, your mile or two every [00:14:00] day. And what I learned early on was that you don't want to break the chain.
And this is the other superpower of dailiness is if you focus over there on the calendar on the wall, and your goal is to not break the chain, It takes all the pressure off the art, right? It takes all the pressure off the creation. As you progress, as that chain gets longer, the art gets made.
But so the commitment is to not breaking the chain. The commitment isn't to making art every day, cause that's, a lot of pressure. if you're going to make art every day, that would shut me down and I'm not even a perfectionist. But if I could commit to not breaking the chain.
And so the other thing I intuited right away is that the minimum to not break the chain, in my case, any Found nature on a white background. The white backroom could be, I use, I shoot on poster board normally, but it could be a white wall. It could be my husband's white [00:15:00] t shirt. It could be an open journal page.
So I could do this anywhere and just take a leaf, a twig, a handful of grass and not break the chain for that day. so the key to staying consistent was that the lowest common denominator, the lowest, requirement to not break the chain was has to be very simple because.
Days do get away from you, right? A lot. Often. Oh, yes. Yes. It happens. All the time. Yeah. Weekly, right? Truly. So what you're saying is that not every single thing you did was worthy of hanging on a wall. That there were some days where you just quickly found a white background and took a picture of the wall.
Something that was nearby and that was your day. Is that's exactly right. And the, several things came out of that. A, I'd never broke the chain and B sometimes every now and then those dashed [00:16:00] off last minute photos are among my favorite. So not always. Sometimes it's just a handful of grass on a piece of white paper and no one will ever see it again.
I do publish it on the blog, even if it's. It's very ordinary and average, but often I did learn to not be afraid of those days because sometimes by shutting down that inner critic and working really fast without any internal dialogue or judgment sometimes those resulted in really good images, probably, letting some intuition come out.
Yeah. So do you find yourself coming back to some of those images later and then going in and doing a little more Photoshop with them or honing those images or do you just take the pictures and you just have a canny knack of making everything look amazing right away?
How do you go about balancing that? I, I've. I've been doing it for 12 and a half years and so 4, 500 images and you've probably seen a couple hundred of [00:17:00] them, right? There's a lot of images that just get posted so I don't break the chain and then just, Fade away into obscurity.
And so if you, that's the power of this simple process. What if you commit to a hundred days? If you make a hundred pieces of art, no matter how dashed off, and then there are the days when you have two to four hours right to to work on your art. But at that end of that a hundred days, if you pick the six best pieces, you're gonna be really proud.
You'll be amazed. And so I have a portfolio of 4, 600 images, but this book that just came out is only 300 of them. You know what I mean? It's a small ratio of those images. And no, I don't, if I photograph the handful of grass, I dash it off. I post it. I don't revisit it. Cause
I didn't break the chain for that day, and I, tomorrow's a new day. We've talked in the podcast about quantity is better than quality [00:18:00] because if you say, I'm going to make a masterpiece today, you're going to be so tensed up about making your perfect work, making this the best thing you've ever made.
But if every day you just do something. Then occasionally you're going to do something amazing. That will be that masterpiece. Yeah. Have you heard that study about the art teacher that gave students half the class, the pottery, that pottery stories, you give half the class, the assignment to make as much. Potteries they can in a semester. And she gave the other half to make the best pots they could in a semester. And at the end of the results juried by independent, jury, the students that were making as many as they could, the best of the pots they created were better than the ones focused on making the best from the beginning.
And it's the, same stuff I was talking about, shuts down the inner critic and such down perfectionism, but also, there's something about doing every [00:19:00] day where as you're doing. Ideas pop into your head and you get that experimental mindset. What if I try this?
What if I try that? You get more playful. Let, Oh, that didn't work. but if I tweak it this way, it still might work, so you can see why that quantity over quality works. It's right. Yeah. Cause if this doesn't work today, who cares? I'm gonna do something tomorrow.
And then you're not overburdening yourself with, no, I'm going to do 10 things today. No, it's just one thing. Just one. Yeah. Yeah. And then there are days when you might want to do 10 things, but all you're committing to is doing one. And it's very powerful. you're talking with Lori.
Lori Siebert. Yeah. And do you know that she does? Post it notes. Post it notes. Yes. She does a drawing on a post it note.
And I love that because, what is it? A three inch by three inch or whatever. Not intimidating, right? It's a small frame. It's not intimidating. But if, all [00:20:00] she's committing to is making marks on a post it note a day. So if the day gets away from you and they will, right? Life happens.
And all you do is put an X on the paper. She hasn't broken that chain. Technically, yeah. That gets to go on the pile of not breaking the chain. I love the power of committing to not breaking the chain and letting the art almost create itself.
Focus on not breaking the chain and the art happens. Something else that you said that we've talked about a lot in this podcast is taking yourself off of autopilot. And when you have something that you're working on in a daily way. You are constantly searching for your next idea. So that has opened up your eyes to pay attention.
And so I, I have a creative process that has four stages. One is, the revive stage, cause if you're not rested, you're not going to be able to create. And [00:21:00] another is realize stage this is where you're collecting ideas. And if you're doing a project daily, then that realize stage is something that you're going to have active all the time.
And then there's the refined stage where you are just going to take what you have realized and put it down. That's you're not breaking the chain. And there's a final stage is the release stage where you. You're going to finish working on something, which I know a lot of creatives have a hard time finishing something
And if it's something that is involving confidence, If you never finish anything, then you don't have to give it to anyone or sell it to anyone because it's not done yet. So with what you're working on, not breaking the chain, you're allowing yourself to revive because you're only doing the one thing at a time.
You're allowing yourself to realize because you're looking all the time for what Your next piece of your chain is going to be. You're doing your work because you don't want to break the chain. [00:22:00] And then you're finishing your work because you want to get ready for what you're going to do tomorrow.
So you're able to do that whole entire process. And my point with having a creative process is How healthy it makes you as a creative, because I think that you've probably discovered that as a creative doing something so consistently that your creativity is like top of the game. It is a little bit like a runner, right?
You're if if you're running every day, you're going to be in good running form and so yeah, in a way. It's kept me in good running form. This practice. Absolutely. I'm familiar with your four hours I'm following along on the blog. I was on the podcast and you're, I'm listening to refine right now.
Yes. And yes. Absolutely. The same. I, come to this similar conclusions. And I love that the what's your fourth one really release, right? So when I teach photography workshops you should see what the class, when I say, [00:23:00] and you're not done when you hit save.
Cause you're not done and everybody's what? And I said, you have to share it, yes, you have to share it because art is an exchange between you and the viewer and you need a viewer to be then done with the process. cause everybody wants to, play with the nature materials and make compositions.
And then I teach what I do in Photoshop with the editing. And then I say, and then we're not done. We got to share it. Yeah. yeah. That's why I chose the word release is that you have to let it go for whatever purpose you made the work for, gift, decorate your house.
Sell it to someone, license your art. You have to let it go. And it is hard. but it, but you know what again, what makes that easier and easier doing it over and over and over again. And then it gets really easy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I make a lot of.
A photo a day for 12 and a half [00:24:00] years that I've shared with the world, I've gotten all sorts of feedback, right? I know what people respond to. but I'll still make an image knowing that my followers aren't really going to be interested in this, but. But I like it, and that's good enough and I'm still going to post it. So yeah the release is very important. It is. And sometimes you're doing something that, some people might have a hard time with, but for whatever reason you feel that it is an important thing to say. Or it's a part of your artistic voice that needs to be let loose.
And you need to just go ahead and let that happen. And it's okay if everyone doesn't like it because. That's why there's so much art in the world, so that you can find the things that you like. And you're not always going to make everyone happy, and that's okay. And you don't want to, right? No, you don't.
You don't even want to try. No. If you want to find your audience. Yeah.
Yeah. The other thing you mentioned, you just mentioned in that was [00:25:00] artistic voice. And I think, so many people. ask, how do I find my artistic voice? And that's a very hard thing to teach. Do you you teach, do you get asked that question?
I do. When I'm working with artists and they want to start selling their work, trying to help them figure out who their audience is and their audience, it's typically someone who wants to hear their creative voice talk. And so to be able to say what is authentic about. What is inside you? How do you find that and then make that part of what you express?
Yeahit's very hard to help people find their artistic voice or their eye, whatever we want to call it. The only way I found, and again, I'm evangelizing, is making art every day and then saying to yourself, I like this. I don't like that. I like this. I don't like that. Over and over.
And you will start to realize what your artistic [00:26:00] voice is. I think dailyness is one way to get to finding out what your artistic voice is. You've probably seen, just going back to your very first posts see a trail of how you've changed as a creative in how you are seeing the nature that you bring in to photograph.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, my, if you go back to the beginning still, it actually does look surprisingly similar to what it is now. I started still with found nature. But I also, at the time I visual journal and I like to do collage and I was finding composition. Elusive, right? And I could cut paper ephemera, lay it down and, make compositions that please me, but I I wanted a better understanding or a better grasp at what composition, elements of composition, I'll call it. And the irony is. This [00:27:00] project taught me so much about the creative process, about an idea I call placefulness, about the place I live and the seasons of the place I live.
In the book, I talk about 72 micro seasons. I've mapped my bio region into 72 five day. Microseasonal unfoldings. I've learned so much, but I feel like composition compositionally. I don't know. I feel like I'm not necessarily any better 12 and a half years later. people who know me. Dearly say I am, but inside, I'm not convinced that I still feel like composition is an interesting thing.
I think that's neat if you felt like you'd conquered that you wouldn't have the curiosity to keep, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's very interesting. Yeah, I, and then when I teach workshops, I teach elements of composition.
I don't teach them. I talk [00:28:00] about them. And what I've gotten some conceptual understanding is that there are elements of composition Unity or balance or harmony. These are concepts that you might be trying to achieve in your art. But then there's techniques and there's a million of 'em, right?
That are root, rule of thirds, near neighbor colors or, gradients or whatever. . Those are all techniques, but What you have to choose is Those conceptual ideas. Do you want your work to be harmonious or do you want your work to be energetic or challenging,
See, I want my work to be calm, right? I wanted a still quiet corner of the internet. So I use a lot of symmetry. I use circles. and I don't do almost any triangles, triangles are energetic, it's interesting. Composition still fascinates me and I feel like I don't have a grasp on it. I love, see, you used the word still. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. [00:29:00] Yeah. Something else that I want to talk about is perfectionism. I know that is something a lot of creatives really struggle with.
And I think perfectionism tangles itself up with confidence a lot. And it appears to be something where I need to make this perfect. but that thought about making something perfect Is almost sometimes a facade for I'm not feeling like I should be releasing this. So if I keep working, it will be better.
You mentioned that a little bit, so talk a little bit more aboutaerospace engineering. You have to be perfect, right? I know you have to really be mindful about everything that you're putting together so that it not only works today.
but that it will work 10 years from now. My dad is a stress fatigue specialist. his job at John Deere was to study stress fatigue, [00:30:00] and specifically bolts, because those little things are usually the things that make the big things break. You bet.
And so that kind of thing is perfectionism at its heightened state. So talk a little bit about how you worked as an aerospace engineer, Is it perfect? Should I let it go?
Is it ready to be released? And then being a creative who is releasing something every day. Talk about that a little. Yeah. So as a as an engineer, I worked in research. So that's a little different than your dad, with products out in the field. What. I was allowed to do is come up with concepts and then we had a army of 500 engineers in Arizona that tested those concepts.
So I wasn't on the detailed andthat kind of, it can't fail. That was tested before products went out into the world and in aviation bless their heart, it takes. [00:31:00] At the minimum at the time I was in it, seven years was the fastest you could get from an idea to something in flight.
But normally it took as many as 20. it's so the whole process. It took decades to get anything new into the field as it should. So anyways I wasn't challenged with needing perfectionism because I was in research, but I can say, my husband's a perfectionist and my son is a perfectionist.
So I'm, I have firsthand and I'm not, and my daughter is that, so I have firsthand experience with perfectionism and I like the way you tied it to confidence because I think you're absolutely right. That's what it's tied to. And I mentioned this at the beginning of our discussion, dailiness builds confidence by doing right.
You get confident at things you do repeatedly. So there's dailiness helps with that. But I can say for myself, if you look at my images and my book, I think people would think, I'm a perfectionist. And [00:32:00] the irony is I'm not at all a perfectionist
I have a technique I called hip bump. It's I'll tell you the story. Cause it's a funny story, I got featured in Martha Stewart living magazine. I know. And it's that's serendipity, right? And so they flew a photographer out from New York, John Dolan, he photographed for Martha Stewart living. We spent the day together. He told me this anecdotal story, which I love. He said he would be on set and the stylist would all be doing a tablescape, right?
Setting the table in the Martha Stewart way. They get it all perfect. All the candles, all the flowers, all the matching napkins, all that. The stylist would call out the creative director, who would come in the room, circle the table two or three times, look at it, bump the table with his hip, and then say, now we're ready.
Ooh, interesting. Isn't that interesting? So it's the hip bump technique. And I teach it in my workshops because it's, [00:33:00] if it's too perfect, it's a little, Stale. It can be a little boring, a little uninteresting. So I use the hip bump technique a lot.
So I'm not a perfectionist, I do think people want that human element in what they're seeing and they want to see the, they want to see the little mistakes I have sold a few of my collages and I said to to the consultancy agency that bought them,
I'm a, I work fast. I'm a messy. Collage artist. You want me to clean up some of that, all those glue smears on Photoshop. And she said no. We want the handmade element. Isn't that interesting? Yes. Yeah. So I think a daily practice can help with the perfectionist. I really do.
You get more confident at what you do every day. And then, also realizing. People really actually don't want perfection. They want to see the human element. They want to see your personality come through. They want to see the glue smears apparently. I think right [00:34:00] now with everything that's going on with AI, the fact that you bring in that human touch, here's my glue smear.
AI is never going to bring in a glue smear. the thumbprint of humanism is very hard to recreate because of your hip bump idea. If you are bumping something to make serendipity occur, you cannot create that purposely.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have an interesting anecdote to share on this. I so the hip bump technique is one of my favorite techniques. And so often when I make a composition, I'll make a circle or a line or a grid or whatever. I'll photograph it and then I'll hip bump it and photograph it again. And so a couple of times I took the two images side by side and I put them on Instagram.
I've said A or B, everybody vote. And the three times I've done, I've got over 300 comments which I think is statistically significant, right? and the interesting thing [00:35:00] is. it will be very divided.
One time it was 50, 50. One time was like 60, 40 of those who prefer the ordered and those who prefer the hip bumped. the interesting thing to me is the people who don't like order, really don't like it.
And the people who like the order, they were at least in the comment section were more, I just prefer, I prefer the ordered one, but the people who didn't like the ordered one really didn't like the ordered one because it made them feel very uncomfortable.
Interesting. Too much order made them feel jittery. yeah. Interesting. And when I teach courses, I put those up and show the results and I say, Whichever one you like is the one you like, and that's your audience.
That's your audience, right? And so it's interesting, oh, yeah. Think that's one of the things I love about art is it's not only interesting to look at, but [00:36:00] the the message behind the art. What are people getting from what you're talking about?
Yeah. I love that about art. Very cool. you wrote something down to me when we were getting ready for the podcast and it was about confidence and creativity.
You said that you were born with an excess of confidence and it makes your experimental approach to life and art much easier.
And that the fact that you're not a huge perfectionist, it makes maybe getting your art ready a little bit easier. And then. people who have that perfectionism gene, I don't know, something, a twist in their DNA, that it could be something that makes it a little bit harder for them to express themselves creatively or get their work done.
Yeah. So what does it feel like to not be a perfectionist? It's an interesting thing. I have two kids. And my husband's a [00:37:00] perfectionist and I am not. And my daughter is not a, she's now a designer.
She's not a perfectionist. And my son is just like his dad. And he's a perfectionist. So where does that come from?
I would have said that my lack of perfectionism came from my feral childhood of growing up running wild. without parental supervision. But at the same time, my mom has an excess of confidence. my mom tells a story. She raised her hand every day in sixth and second grade, whether she knew the answer or not, because she, once she realized the nun would never call on her because she always had her hand up, it just made her look like.
She knew the answer, even when she didn't. So she just raised her hand every question she raised her hand. And so the nun stopped calling on her, but thought she knew the answer. That's my mom. And I'm the same way. And my daughter's the same way. So genetics environment, I don't know.
I'm pretty hard over on genetics at this time because I [00:38:00] was a completely different mother to my son than my. husband's mom was to him and yet they are very similar. but yes, is the perfectionism caused the lack of confidence or is, does the lack of com But it's caused the perfectionism.
but when I teach workshops, I do see that perfectionism is, probably biggest hurdle for a lot of creatives. It really is. the only solution I found to that doing is just simply doing is practice. And in my case, dailiness, but just practice makes you get more confident even, and it's just simply does.
Yeah. Hmm. Okay. in order to do something daily. For 12 years, it needs to be something that you get up every day and say. Yeah. I get to do this again. Now, did you go through some valleys where you're like, Oh my [00:39:00] gosh, why am I doing this?
I don't want to break the chain, so I'm going to keep doing this. But man, today there is just nothing luscious in what I'm doing. Have you had days where you're slogging your way through checking? For sure. Yeah. A lot.
A ton. So I launched this book and first book didn't know what to expect. It's been so busy. I've been so busy with media requests and interviews and workshops and events.
I don't mind being a little busy, but when you go to an event and you're the center of attention, that's a whole new level of fatigue. That's a whole new level of busyness. It's one thing to have a bunch of things on your calendar. It's another thing when all those things are you getting up and speaking, and I, right now I'm in a phase where I'm the busiest I've been in years and finding it really hard to make my daily image. And I say to my followers on the blog, I'm really busy. And so I'm phoning it in. I, say I'm [00:40:00] phoning it in, which means.
They're going to get a lot of handfuls of grass on, on white paper. And honestly, if I hadn't warned them that's what I'm doing, they probably wouldn't even see that much of a change. It's all in our heads, right?
So to do what I do well, I like to spend most of that time in the creative process in the noticing. I just, once I've decided what I'm going to photograph and how I'm going to compose it, the photography really is just pulling the shutter. so the time for me in the creative process that I based on available time and also my Motivation at the time is that noticing how much time do I spend finding my subject making my compositions?
And then the photographing editing and posting and those are just at this point just you know, just technical steps. Yeah. So you have honed your realized stage to just, [00:41:00] it's just super sharp. That's so cool. Yeah. And then your refined stage, I think one of the things we talked about in the refined stage is how do you get your work done?
One of those ways is to feel accountable for what you're working on because you've told people I'm going to do this thing. And because people are expecting to see the thing you're doing, you feel that motivation to get it done. You don't want to let them down.
telling someone like your Instagram followers, I'm going to be doing this every day. Then you don't want to let that down because you've made that promise.
Yeah, that outside accountability. It's super powerful. It's very effective. Yeah. I would recommend for almost everyone trying to do this to do that, make the public declaration I'm going to share it here, whether it's Facebook, Instagram, A blog wherever.
Yeah. Just make that public dec declaration and then Yeah. It'll be a lot easier [00:42:00] for you to make that daily commitment. .
If someone out there today is thinking, okay, I, I really want to do this. I want to think of a creative practice that I can do that is going to help me hone my craft. and you think, okay, I want to do this. Did you dabble in a couple different ideas before you decided, Did you experiment a little bit before you got there? How did you get to that point where you're like, and I'm in my groove, let's go.
Does that make sense? Absolutely. It's a great question. Okay. So I'm a visual. I do collage, I do visual journaling. I make marks on paper. I dabble with paints and. But I'm not a painter and I'm not an illustrator. I'm not a drawer. Although I am a doodler so I, at the time when I started this project, I was I was like doing a lot of [00:43:00] handmade, not, it was pre procreate, so I was doing a lot of like pattern making.
in my journals. I was, but mostly I would say I've done the most of his collage. So those were all on the table when I started my one a day project. So I could have done a collage a day. I thought about a pattern a day. I thought about, like a sketch or a doodle a day. I had been a hobbyist photographer and I hit on found nature because of this, We are a nature family.
We do take hikes together, but also I had to walk the dog every day. So it was very intuitive to go to nature I don't think if I'd have done any of those other ones, I'd still be doing it. There was some intuitive wisdom. I'd been a kid who played outside all day. I was a, I have been a nature kid since day one and.
and I was already a pretty good photographer. So I combine these things so that it fit pretty seamlessly. if I had just bought a pottery wheel [00:44:00] and I was going to do a pot a day or something, I pro I probably wouldn't be doing it 12 and a half years later, but I'm saying, what I would say to people starting out is.
Yeah. Tap into your intuitive wisdom. What did you like as a kid? Think about that. Start the challenge with, I think 30 days is too short, but start your challenge. If you're really not feeling it, stop, start another one, try a different thing. You'll know, because I wake up every day and this is play.
You know what I mean? This is play. This is not work. If you're waking up today and say, Oh, I have to meet my commitment today. You're probably, on the wrong path. So give yourself permission to stop and restart,
just make sure the minimum requirement to not break the chain. Isn't too complicated. Yeah. Cause that's going to get in the way if it's too, if it requires.
It you to have an open hour every day. That's not going to happen. You're just that life doesn't tee that up for anybody. Yeah. So make sure the minimum requirement to, [00:45:00] to not break the chain is something you can do in a matter of minutes And to remember that when you're setting this type of practice up for yourself, that there are no rules.
You get to make up your rules. For me this year, starting my podcast is a chain thing for me that I don't break my chain, but this is a weekly thing that I work on. So just listening to people talk about something that they're doing that is creative and it has helped out in my art.
So much to just be plugged in all the time with what is happening around me and in the world that deals with creativity Yeah. And so when you're deciding what your don't break the chain is going to be, you get to make up those rules and what that looks like.
So basically it is starting with what did you love to do as a child? I love that. Yeah. Yeah. If you're starting out, andyou're like most of us. you [00:46:00] dabble in a lot of different creative mediums and you don't know which one to start. Go back to childhood.
what did you like to do did you, so did you bake, I built forts outside. That's what I did. That heightened state of awareness you're in now with the podcast, That's what this project did for me.
I, in order to find a new subject every day, I'm hyper present for at least a half hour every day at some point looking for a new subject. And that's why I didn't want to stop because I can tell from your face, the big smile you have on your face that you're enjoying this podcast process so much.
And it's, that's how I am with my daily nature find. I enjoy it so much because of the state it puts me in this state of presentness or nowness or attentiveness or awareness, whatever you want to call it. I feel like I've tapped into sort of some kind of mindfulness kind of thing, and I don't want to stop.
I don't want to stop. When you have committed yourself to [00:47:00] something that you want to be doing for and unprecedented amount of time. It does flip a little switch in your head that makes you think about that thing consciously and subconsciously. And it's that subconscious thing that is where that realize focus happens
you probably find things when you're least expecting it. Yeah. You'd be surprised how many subjects I find on the edges of parking lots, so many. Yes. So anyway, yes, I'm always in that state of awareness.
Yes, if. I don't know what I'm going to photograph and I'm taking the dog out. I, there are times when I have to find something on this walk, but mostly it's put me in this heightened state of awareness that is with me all day. And I love it. I have a new relationship with my place here I grew up in Shoreview, Minnesota, and I just turned 60 I'm, Discovering this [00:48:00] place as if for the first time and it's been amazing.
Yeah. It can be true with any kind of art. Yeah. It's just going to put you in this heightened state of noticing that you're going to find delightful to live in. That's another wonderful thing. I think about what you're doing right now is that this is a new chapter for you.
And one that has heightened your vitality of in life it has brought in a whole new perspective. And I think there are a lot of folks who look at retiring from a profession that when it's time to turn that page
don't know what to do with this. so my husband has a book coming out on July 9th. My book came out on May 1st. And the story behind that is we were in our mid forties.
We'd taken a sabbatical, gone to France, [00:49:00] and it was the first time in my adult life that I wasn't working. We put our two kids in school, and I said, let's practice for retirement. And we'd always had creative ambitions, and that we were doing as hobbies, but, We'd pick up when we retired.
So I said, let's. Act like we're, it was practice retirement, something I actually read in a personal finance book. Both of those little practice. exercises. I started still, he start, he started writing and he's got a memoir coming out July 9th. And both of those 12 years later, are now being published books.
the irony is I shared that story with somebody recently, and now there's a. This crazy amount of fascination with this idea of practicing for retirement. And so I've been invited, we're being invited to speak often. I just got invited by AARP to speak.
I know. So it's funny. Be careful what you say out loud.
But the thing that's [00:50:00] interesting is I started practicing for that 12 years ago. And that would be my advice to people is if you think you want to start creative project as a retirement hobby please start it before you retire, right?
Just be so that when you retire, you are already part of a group, right? You already know you have. watercolor class on Wednesday, or you already know how to use social media and share your work, whatever, so that transition on your last day of work isn't quite so scary and abrupt, you're right.
And knowing that But when you retire, you can almost look at it as, what do I want to be when I grow up? Yeah. And if you don't have any idea, think about what you liked as a child. As a kid, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then start taking some classes, find some communities. You had mentioned that you just wanted to [00:51:00] find a creative community.
And. It brought you where you are here now. So if you hadn't been digging into those areas that you thought you were curious about, or you, Oh, I wish I could be like the cool kids, that's exactly what it was. Yeah.
And there is room at, especially at the creative table, there's room for you. You just need to come in and just. Sit down and get started.
I think a lot of people think I might have a book in me. You and your husband both did and you probably now have another book that you could Start on, right?
So what does that book journey look like? Yeah. Yeah, so many creatives do have books in them or aspire to have books in them. So my, in my case, an agent reached out to me in an Instagram and DMs after I'd been doing the project like six or seven years.
And she just very politely said, do you have a book in you? I said, yes, but I don't have a concept. And I [00:52:00] actually finally over COVID. I was doing the artist's way and I got a concept. I ran into this idea of 72 micro seasons. And so over COVID, I mocked up a book and I finally was like, this is something I could be proud of.
my point in sharing that story is, if you have a book in you, My advice is take that concept pretty far down the path before you give it to an agent to shop to a publisher, because if it's not a well formed idea, that thing is going to change and not be something you recognize or are necessarily very proud of.
So bring the concept, And in, my case, it needed to be laid out, in InDesign or whatever they do books in, but have it very far down the path. and it will help the publisher. [00:53:00] See what they're buying, right? So that's my only advice.
have your concepts solid, then do your mock ups, I think in the industry, only three chapters or three examples are as all that's needed for a book proposal. I'm saying take it farther. do 60, 70 percent of the book so that they, that publisher knows exactly what they're buying so that you retain creative control of the product.
That's my advice. Yeah. if you come in with a half baked idea, they'll. Toss in some extra ingredients that you might not have wanted in there. So suddenly someone is steering you where you might not want to go.
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Such good information. Yeah. I think that writing a book is something that many people would just feel a great sense of satisfaction knowing that this had happened for them. must have been just amazingly exciting to get your first [00:54:00] book in your hands.
Oh, it's a funny thing. It is. I first of all, my publisher is Monticelli. They're an imprint or they are acquired by Fiden. So I got all of Biden global resources like distribution network. So this book has gone worldwide and it's done so much better than I ever expected, but yeah, that first copy, it's an interesting thing.
There's so many galleys and now we do galleys digitally. We don't, they don't mail. Proofs back and forth in the mail, like they used to, but I'd seen, I think we probably did seven or eight galleys. so on the one hand, it's thrilling to get the physical book. On the other hand, I'd seen it so many times that it was no, there wasn't a surprise was gone, honestly.
So it's both, it's a mixed, it's a mixed. Yeah. And sometimes, especially with art, seeing things on screen quite often it looks prettier than seeing things on paper. That's what actually why I was saying to the [00:55:00] listeners about book publishing,
Cause my publisher used a really high quality paper with a high gloss. So my images look as good on the paper as they do on the screen. But, and a lot of. art and a lot, especially if it's on the craft end, if it's not fine art, but more on the craft end, they'll use a low quality paper stock.
And then it won't quite just flat, won't look as good as it does on a screen. And you'll be disappointed with your product. So the, like I said, the farther down the path, you can be about what you want, how you want it to look, the more creative control you'll. Retain in the process with the publisher.
Yeah great advice. if and if everyone's thinking, I am super intrigued with still I need to see what this is all about Where can they find you so they can go and just feast? on your images because that's what I did.
I'm like, I have a little time, I'll go look. And then half an hour later, I'm like, Beth, pull yourself [00:56:00] away. You have other things to do. Yes I'm, it's easy. My blog is called Still Blog and I'm Mary Jo Hoffman and I'm only on. Instagram. It's the only place I hang out and it's Mary Jo Hoffman, one string on Instagram.
And my book is called still the art of noticing and it's everywhere worldwide. So anyone can find it. So still and Mary Jo Hoffman, if you put those in Google, it will pop up. You will find Mary Jo. Yeah. And I will also have all this information in the show notes. So it'll have live links that'll take you right to where you want to go see.
This has been such a fun conversation. We could talk for three, four, five, four hours. I know, we should do workshops together. Oh my gosh, I would love that so much. And we're not that far away from each other. Seriously. No, Midwesterners, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We see all our seasons and enjoy every single one of them. That's exactly right. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. I'm always ready to put [00:57:00] my sweaters on and I'm always ready to put my sweaters away. Isn't that funny?
I know. I know. like, today we are going to be crazy hot and the humidity is going to be whoof up the roof and yet I can hear my tomatoes growing, they are loving it.
So I will go out barefoot and I will water my garden, but when the fall hits, I will happily put on my slippers and get my sweater out and my space heater. And that's it. Cocoon. I love that too. So I love them all. Yep. All 72 of them. Yeah. Micro seasons. Yeah. So Mary Jo, I thank you so much. You've now become one of my very good creative friends.
I will be happy to say that to people. It's been such a pleasure to talk to you today about your creativity and your eye and how you realize the world around you. And just the things that you've been able to share today. I know people are going to take this away and use it with their creative practice, no matter what that is.
So everyone [00:58:00] out there think today, are you doing something consistently? Are you doing something daily? And if you're not. I double dog dare you to figure out what that might be and then start putting it into practice and then drop me a DM in Instagram. Let me know what that is. And also start following Mary Jo and let her know what she's inspired you to start.
So get out there and just be consistent and daily. And that is going to help your creativity just prosper in ways you did not think possible. See coming and whatever you do, my friend, stay creative. Wonderful. Nobody can turn down a double dog dare. I love that. I know, right? Bye everybody. It's been fun.
00:00 Introduction and Special Guest Announcement
01:00 Mary Jo Hoffman's Creative Journey
01:58 The Daily Challenge and Its Impact
02:28 Discovering the Online Creative Community
03:33 The Birth of the 'Still' Project
17:54 The Artistic Process and Overcoming Perfectionism
29:55 Perfectionism in Engineering and Creativity
31:59 The Hip Bump Technique
33:40 Daily Practice and Confidence
39:13 Balancing Busy Schedules with Creativity
42:02 Finding Joy in Daily Creative Practices
43:22 Starting a Creative Project
48:48 Practicing for Retirement
51:33 Publishing a Book
56:53 Embracing Seasonal Changes
57:33 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
Show Notes:
How to find Mary Jo
Her Blog: https://stillblog.net/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maryjohoffman/
A Link to buy her book: Amazon
Links to Create-Today
Get my Free Kickstart Video:
https://www.bdi-create.today/kickstart
Information about Create-Today offerings:
https://www.bdi-create.today
